coins in SHTF
 

I keep hearing about buying PMs for SHTF. I'm guessing they wouldn't be worth much until things calm down and return to normal. However, I wondering about how silver and gold coins performed in recent history. Whether it's Zimbabwe, Agentina 2001, or even post Katrina NOLA (During the depression silver was already in coins.) Would modern Americans really be impressed with mercury dimes?


In Argentina (for example) back in 2001, how far into SHTF did precious metal coins begin to be used as trade? How were the coins used? and were smaller ones better than larger ones?(Dimes verses silver dollars vs gold) And was the value arbitrary or based on spot value?

Re: coins in SHTF
 

I am more and more a fan of the belief that PMs aren't going to do you any good during the SHTF situation. You can not eat, drink or be sheltered directly with PMs. Because of this I believe you need to be prepped in all other categories first and foremost. PMs are a way of maintaining your wealth once we hopefully come out of the SHTF situation. Unless you have say someone take over your whole state warlord style and they have plenty of whatever to sell for some bling bling you are not going to find people willing to give you food for gold or silver, they will be looking to barter for other survival items.

This is why I have sold off half of my PMs this month and moved that money into other more important preps to having during the :fan:.

Just my 2 cents.

:beer:

Re: coins in SHTF
 

You have done wisely, if tshtf, none of my preps are for sale as I probably have no way to replace them.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

My understanding is that PM's were converted to the evil fiat as needed and spent quickly. People were gouged as much as possible by the exchangers. Black market was preferable as there were no limits/records.

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2008_10_01_archive.html

Re: coins in SHTF
 

That's my thought on total SHTF. What about pure inflationary depression (Agentina 2001) ? Any recent historical knowledge? I always hear of how it will be valuable, but it sounds more like opinion.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

You don't use your PMs to take care of daily needs. You barter or work or whatever you can. PMs are to finance rebuilding after order is restored. Don't sell your birthright for a bowl of stew!

Re: coins in SHTF
 

Sig line worthy post, Saul...

:applause_:applause_:applause_

Re: coins in SHTF
 

If this situation keeps unfolding at this pace I will really not get my coins in time ...

Re: coins in SHTF
 

It will do as advertised for preserving wealth but will still need conversion to the currency of the land as needed. The sheeple won't understand or care until very late in the game. Those saving dimes for barter are wasting effort imo, though it is still silver and worth hoarding for conversion as needed.

If I ramble I blame good wine tonight.

BTW the link on my previous post is for an Argentine's blog in post SHTF Argentina. Links on it are worthwhile.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

during SHTF you'd sell your PM to whatever the current unit of exchange is.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

I`m operating under the assumption that WTSHTF the reality will be different than I imagined it would be, and the dynamic will be fluid. The more preps of all kinds (including PM`s) I have the more options will be available. :smile:

Re: coins in SHTF
 

Hopefully there will be a window of opportunity during which PM's can be sold for a profit before the entire system collapses. The profit can then be turned into debt reduction, tangibles, or real estate.

Otherwise just hold tight for the long run.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

Unless you are starving of course!

Re: coins in SHTF
 

BINGO!!!


You hold on to your PM's so you can get to the other side of it!!!


T

Re: coins in SHTF
 

Re: coins in SHTF
 

Exactly the advice I have given for years. PMs should be purchased only when you have the rest of preps taken care of and just don't have much else to spend your FRNs on.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

It really depends on at what level you call your preps "taken care of", before PM purchasing. How much food must one stockpile before you can say, "I have that taken care of"; a month, a year, the rest of your life? I was into PMs long before I started prepping. I've gone into "PM or Prep?" cycles several times over the last 10 years and right now, my target is a year.

But the more I think about things, the more holes I find. Right now, the big gaps I have is fuel, medicine and animal food. As of last week, I made a decision to stop buying PMs and put my excess FRNs into preps, mainly nonperishable, nonfood items. The thread about a breakdown in the logistical/supply systems is a really strong possibility right now. In that case, PMs or FRNs aren't going to do any good.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

How much toilet paper and soap do you have?

A years or more?

Stuff, like Andy says, otherwise you will be selling your PM's to the greasy guy on the corner for next to nothing.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

Exactly, that's what I'm working on right now!

Re: coins in SHTF
 

That, of course, is an individual decision. Me personally, if I didn't have a year's of food put up, I wouldn't even think of buying silver or gold.

Mainly I speak to people that are running around buying PM and don't have two days food in house. That is plainly stupid, IMHO. Should food become short, they won't believe how little an ounce of gold will buy....in fact, they will become quite angry.

They also won't believe how much a hand full of garden seed or a small bag of seed potatoes will go for.......and so on........

The relative value of PM's will depend on how far civilization sinks. Below a certain point, they will be relatively worthless until civilization comes back to that certain point.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

This should be a sticky post in the GIM PM Purchase Section.

:applause_

Re: coins in SHTF
 

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2008/01/a...-forms-of.html Here's the exact article.

This is what I've always figured. However, recently after reading too much fiction (both literature and survival forums :) ), my imagination started running wild.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

true.... ...............

Re: coins in SHTF
 

Save old telephone books for TP

Re: coins in SHTF
 

Tell that to the wife after a week...

Re: coins in SHTF
 

It's amazing how often we get some variation of the questions, "When was toilet paper invented?", "Who invented toilet paper?", and "What did people use before toilet paper was invented?" Here are a few of the highlights in the evolution of toilet paper that we've compiled from various sources. Some links to more comprehensive articles follow.

* What did people use before toilet paper? Well, just use your imagination: grass, leaves, fur, mussell shells, corncobs, stinging nettles... okay, maybe not that last, at least not more than once. The ancient Greeks used stones and pieces of clay; ancient Romans used sponges on the ends of sticks, kept in jugs filled with salty water. Mideasterners commonly used the left hand, which is supposedly still considered unclean in the Arabian region.
* "Official" toilet paper - that is, paper which was produced specifically for the purpose - dates back at least to the late 14th Century, when Chinese emperors ordered it in 2-foot x 3-foot sheets.
* Corncobs and pages torn from newspapers and magazines were commonly used in the early American West. The Sears catalogue was well-known in this context, and even produced such humorous spinoffs as the "Rears and Sorebutt" catalogue. The Farmer's Almanac had a hole in it so it could be hung on a hook and the pages torn off easily.
* Joseph C. Gayetty of New York started producing the first packaged toilet paper in the U.S. in 1857. It consisted of pre-moistened flat sheets medicated with aloe and was named "Gayetty’s Medicated Paper". Gayetty's name was printed on every sheet.
* Rolled and perforated toilet paper as we're familiar with today was invented around 1880. Various sources attribute it to the Albany Perforated Wrapping (A.P.W.) Paper Company in 1877, and to the Scott Paper company in 1879 or 1890. On a side note, the Scott Company was too embarrassed to put their name on their product, as the concept of toilet paper was a sensitive subject at the time, so they customized it for their customers... hence the Waldorf Hotel became a big name in toilet paper.

Here's an 1886 Albany Perforated Wrapping (A.P.W.) Paper Company ad for perforated, medicated, rolled toilet paper.

* In 1935, Northern Tissue advertised "splinter-free" toilet paper. Yep, you read that right; early paper production techniques sometimes left splinters embedded in the paper. And you thought you had it tough!
* In 1942, St. Andrew's Paper Mill in Great Britain introduced two-ply toilet paper
* Amnerica experienced its first toilet paper shortage in 1973.
* The Virtual Toilet Paper Museum opened its virtual doors in 1999.

Here are the more comprehensive articles we promised you. They will open in new browser windows.

http://www.nobodys-perfect.com/vtpm/...tphistory.html

Re: coins in SHTF
 

Back when I found this forum at the beginning of this year, I was all gung-ho silver. Spending currency every 2 weeks or so on silver (depending on the price). Now in the last couple months I have shifted to putting that money into preps, I believe it was a short conversation with you that tipped it to this direction. As was said, I was thinking of needing money in a SHTF scenario, but one will have little need for money if you already have what the money would buy.

Now I will only buy PM's once I have a few months of food/water, and a few other basic necessities. The PM's will be for all or most of the payment on a house in the future, but I have a long way to go. Slow and steady wins the race. :ok:

Re: coins in SHTF
 

But a big part of that "rest of preps" is that plot of land where you build your house, and garden, and all the other necessities of homesteading through tough times. I live in a (too) small apartment I don't own, in a too-big city which realistically provides my best bet for continued employment in tough times. I have food put away, and other stores, too, but I'm not set up like Andy. When land prices really drop, i might have the opportunity to buy some. For me, my (too few) PMs represent a concealable, portable store of wealth. I wish I had more gold, but it is what it is.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

OK, here's my schematic picture of the price of gold as TSHTF to reflect TnAndy's statement. So the PM price will depend greatly on how far down the TSHTF curve we get.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

If you really want to have a fungible currency when TSHTF, buy a couple thousand lighters......Or knives.......

Re: coins in SHTF
 

sealed 55 gallon drums of unleaded.
cases of cheep vodka.
Asswipe.
fill a connex full of those items, you will do very well.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

This man here has the right idea.

Gas prices are already up from last night

Re: coins in SHTF
 

Keep in mind that TP is specifically designed to dissolve going down the pipes. Any other type of paper will probably end up plugging your toilet. Plumber's paradise?

Re: coins in SHTF
 

If SHTF, I am concentrating on things in no definite order. Keep in mind, things don't have to "hit the fan." They just may get bad enough to require special dedication and ingenuity to overcome. People who are used to depending on the government for sustenance are doomed.

1. Non perishables - canned soup, spaghetti, vegetables, some MRE's, etc (Several weeks worth at least to get us over the worst of it)

2. Medicine

3. Defensive tools (Don't want to elaborate)

4. Secondary transportation that does not require much fuel/maintenance such as bicycles.

5. Gold and silver - there will always be someone who accepts this in return
for services or materials. Some people won't but others will be attempting to acquire wealth or may need a medium of exchange to obtain something from somebody else.

6. Chocolate, Alcohol, Cigarettes

7. Water purification - tablets, steri-pens. You can go a while without fuel, but not water.

I'm sure there's lots here I missed. I think silver and gold will have their places if and probably when FRNs become worthless.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

I think anybody with the common sense to have something to trade will
probably have some knowledge of gold and silver coins and hence will be willing to trade for surplus at the least.

no amount of money or item is going to part people from things they feel
they are going to need to survive.

lets face it the average joe is not likely to have much of value to anyone
who is well prepared so it is not going to matter a whole lot if he wont accept gold or silver as payment.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

c'mon, if things were to get to the point that pm's don't hold some value, society would be beyond repair. aka you'll be unsustainamble anyway. I hold them for when the currency goes bad. preps and other things are for temporary sustenance/protection, they will not last a lifetime.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

In many countries, they keep a cardboard box next to the crapper and throw used TP in there, because the pipes couldn't handle it. When the box gets full, just take the whole thing out and dispose of it as you wish. It would be a good idea if you had to use improvised TP.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

That thing better be in your line of sight, because it'll be popped open in 10 minutes otherwise.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

I read a thread somewhere that told of a person from South America who moved to the U.S.

Later her mother also came here. The mother having lived in the "old" country her entire life insisted in keeping a large wooden spoon by the commode to scrape excess "stuff" from her backside. I guess this was the preferred method where she came from. :puke:

Re: coins in SHTF
 

Hmmm, I like Fullpower's reply the most...as long as the mice can't get into the shipping container and party hardy chewing up the asswipe and thru the plastic liters of Vodka.
Good luck folks.

Be Fully Prepared - Understand Gold Coin Usage During Select SHTF Scenarios
 

There are so many different flavors of S hitting TF that it's a coin toss to answer your "coins in SHTF" question.

But I do believe we will likely see 2 important characteristics during the most probable SHTF scenarios:

1. The crisis will be like a very slow moving train wreck lasting many decades, at least.
2. Mediums of exchange will prevail over barter.

Here is why I see these 2 things taking place and why I think silver and especially gold make great preps and must not be ignored, and are possibly even more important than "very fixed high cost preps":

The world is a very big place and it is going to be difficult for the entire world to plunge into crisis all at once.

As things worsen, local economies and local support systems will come to the front in terms of day to day operations and activities.
This localization of activities will serve to slow the impending crisis greatly.

Even the worst and most unprepared cities will not dissolve into violent chaos that quickly.
This is because mobility will allow many city dwellers time to relocate.
And once violence starts, that same violence has a way of defeating itself in a "every one for themselves" atmosphere.

I don't want to go into all the other reasons, but from everything I have read, I really feel that most of the SHTF scenarios will evolve slowly over time, and last a long time as well.

I do not believe the world will magically come out the other side so quickly.
If there is a major SHTF scenario in the USA, then it is likely to be a global SHTF scenario too IMO.

In this slow moving, long lasting train wreck, barter will certainly work and be taking place.
But I also believe commerce using a medium of exchange will be involved as well, and isolated SHTF scenarios of the past certainly demostrate this.
Actually, I believe most transactions will gravitate toward the use of small coins and small things of real value.
Copper coins, silver coins, jewelry, and select other small items of value will certainly be preferred over clad, and paper will be chucked or used as TP.
But small gold coins will take over, and I expect larger gold bars to be made into small gold coins by select parties, industries or even gov'ts early on during the crisis.
Gold is the most difficult to fake and has the best historic monetary factors.

Many have said there is not enough gold around to be used as money and certainly a one-tenth ounce coin would likely have a value of what at least seven hundred dollars would buy you in today's money.

So there is a problem there, but this problem gets solved by a number of methods and I expect those to be implemented in the early stages of the crisis.

I do not believe centralized commerce falls off the face of the earth under most SHTF scenarios, although working from sunrise to sunset for just enough food to feed you and your family is likely to be the average person's 7 day ritual.
Picture large 24 hour marketplaces with their own vender stalls, both big and small, and with extensive private armadas of security.

Getting back and forth to the marketplaces nearby where you live becomes a much bigger concern than getting a good deal for your coin while you're there, as is protecting what's yours where you reside.

Many will select to leave their coins with their local marketplace itself, as that will be safer than travelling with their money, although for most people they will accumulate very little money for their work and may simply get paid once they arrive at the market even though they work somewhere else.

Communication systems will be different, but I do believe certain types of local and private communication will survive.

Of course these poor workers could still be robbed of the 2 or 3 days of food they bought, while on their way back to wherever they reside - but SHTF scenarios are in no way free of risks.

These massive and heavily protected commerce-market locals will likely become the bank, hospital, education, ... everything-in-one operations of the future.

The "green zones" might even be the new name given to them.
Just getting inside the perimeter will be a security endeavor and require passing through many layers.
Services, especially medical services, will be segregated heavily depending on one's wealth or status.
Everything will cost something and few will find entrance into the most desired sections.

Certain "special green zone" areas, the size of a town itself, may become off limits to outsiders without a "pass", whatever that ends up being.


So, IMHO, gold coins and gold jewelry, and silver to a some extent that I'm not so sure about, will take the cake under the majority of potential SHTF scenario types, and may protect you in an amazing way.

Stocking up on them now may actually be better than investing in fixed solar, or wind energy systems and many other big ticket items that are not easy to move.

It would be terrible to find that you had sunk everything into select fixed location preps, but the kind of SHTF scenario that takes place requires you to pick up and go to a different state or even country, or do a type of work that you had not previously thought about; or that you were in the end, unable to protect those things from outsiders.

And then, on top of that, to possibly discover that just a handful of gold and a shoe box of silver would have been enough purchasing power in the midst of the crisis to buy food for an entire decade or maybe even much longer.


I certainly hope in never comes to this, for my children's sake.
But unfortunately, it sure does look like that is where the world is heading.

Sometimes I think that if the S does HTF, I would rather have the catastrophic "all at once" type of SHTF scenario instead, you know, the asteroid impact or whatever.
But then I realize those would probably be much worse.

Re: coins in SHTF
 

i certainly think that having preps first is extremely important but having some gold or silver socked away isnt shabby either. id work on the preps first, gathering whatever i can now for the lean years ahead to help myself to be as self reliant as possible.

but now that im really, really close to buying a small homestead, something that i have planned and waited years for, i find myself being worried about being able to pay property taxes. i will have to sell most of my PMs to buy this land but it will enable me to do what i have been working for.

i aint getting any younger and who knows what or when things will hit the fan. but when it DOES hit the fan, as i reckon it most certainly will,.............what about the tax man--do we assume the govt will fail and there will be no tax collecting or assessments on land? who knows what is really going to happen----new currency, new overlords....im thinking its wise to save back some silver or gold for that. an old cowboy i know just says to shoot them, but you know-----that just invites a war.

im all for stocking up on extra stuff, bottles of whisky, TP, meds, seeds, things for exchanging, bartering---who knows who we will have to pay off someday or to grease the way to something we need.

its funny, i have waited and saved and planned for so many years to get a small place of my own, now it looks like i can actually do it, ive even found the right place and will put a bid on it.

and it scares the poop out of me...lololol. i find myself wondering 'How can i lose this--how can it be taken away from me and how should i prepare for that option.'

maybe im inviting trouble and worry---you know, sufficient for the day is the evil thereof...........